- My Satellite Setup
- TM 5402HD
Sky+ UK.
- My Location
- Scottish Borders
The Viacom channels arent using that beam - Id be able to receive them if they were. As it is, I have ZERO reception. On your map Im more or less under the n in "Kingdom"
Eutelsat Hot Bird 13F & 13G
- Thread starter solly
- Start date
anto@
Regular Member
- My Satellite Setup
- dish 180 laminas 4 feed ku c lin c circ ka tbs 6983 tbs 6903X tbs 6522 JPC positioner
- My Location
- italy
I think you're wrong
there are too many signal differences between my system (180 double motor laminas) and Marcus' system
given that we are both in the same country except that he is about 700 km further south than me and he has results of almost 2 db of mer
believe me 2 db is a big difference
he uses a 150 gibertini
and my results are in line with a colleague of mine who also uses a 180 laminas and like me he also lives on the 45th parallel 40 km further west than my position
MCelliotG
Specialist Contributor
- My Satellite Setup
- TBS 5925, Mut@nt HD51, EDISION OSMINI, MABO 130X144, DRAGONSAT DS3000 LED MOTOR, INVERTO BLACK ULTRA TWIN LNB
- My Location
- Thessaloniki, Greece
If the shifted 13E wide beam towards the east rumour is true, I estimated how the beam must have been moved towards the east. Perhaps this explain the behaviour of Vivacom's TPs. Take into account that the outer beam is not realistic, since I didn't calculate Earth's curvature.
Attachments
- My Satellite Setup
- TM 5402HD
Sky+ UK.
- My Location
- Scottish Borders
Whats that outer power curve roughly? Im using a 1m dish on 13E. It may have moved a little as we had some vicious gales here over the winter & the weekend weather hasnt been good enough to service the dish farm yet - the rest of the Hotbird transponders are coming in at full power though, so it cant have moved much if indeed it has......
Umair Malik
Member
- My Satellite Setup
- 8-Feet Motorized (Coverage:-125E To 3.1E)
Fixed C=(105E,76E,68.5E,38.5E)
Fixed KU=(95E,93.5E,88E,83E,80E,42E,38.5E,26E,25.5E,21E,13E,9E,4W)
- My Location
- Pakistan
I think the beam is similar to the Balkan Beam on Bulgariasat 1.9E. With slightly touching the French border on the west, Sweden in the north and north-eastern part of algeria/tunisia/Libya in the south.
The wide beam rotating to the east is not possible as there is no signal in Middle East and Central Asia.
The wide beam rotating to the east is not possible as there is no signal in Middle East and Central Asia.
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- My Satellite Setup
- TM 5402HD
Sky+ UK.
- My Location
- Scottish Borders
Well as Ive said before whatever beam is in use its got a hell of a steep drop off in power between Sweden & south eastern Scotland!
MCelliotG
Specialist Contributor
- My Satellite Setup
- TBS 5925, Mut@nt HD51, EDISION OSMINI, MABO 130X144, DRAGONSAT DS3000 LED MOTOR, INVERTO BLACK ULTRA TWIN LNB
- My Location
- Thessaloniki, Greece
So, whatever it is, it does not seem to be a shifted wide beam, because there would not be such a steep cut off in such short distance.
A super beam for Hotbird should look like this (but shifted to the East).
A super beam for Hotbird should look like this (but shifted to the East).
silo85
New Member
- My Satellite Setup
- 2x 150cm KU BAND Invacom SNF 031 - OCTAGON SF 8008 & OCTAGON SF 4008
- My Location
- Bulgaria - Sofia
The Superbeam is coverage Balkan , Poland , Ukraine ,Belarus , Sweden , Finland , Litva , Latvia , Estonia, Germany , Swizerland , Italy , Austria , and part of Norway
rodscha
Specialist Contributor
- My Satellite Setup
- See signature
- My Location
- carcassonne south france,700ks south of Paris ,300k N of Barcelona
Very stable reception here,no day/night variation
70% reception,on 3 TPs having FTA channels.
versus 85% or 77% on the bulk of Hotbird here in south France.
So,not the #584 or #586 beams.
the previous beam (last week)was weaker & lower daytime stronger at night.
70% reception,on 3 TPs having FTA channels.
versus 85% or 77% on the bulk of Hotbird here in south France.
So,not the #584 or #586 beams.
the previous beam (last week)was weaker & lower daytime stronger at night.
Nalleman
Member
- My Satellite Setup
- 1,8 Channel Master, Black Pro LNB with CM feedhorn for 28 E which is my main interest when watching TV.
Using two VU+ DUO 4K SE, a VU+ DUO 2 and an Octagon SF8000.
Fixed dishes at: 42 E (0,75 m), 28,2/28,5 E (1,8 m), 19,2 E (1,5 m), 13 E (1,1 m), 9 E (0,7 m), 5 E (1,2 m) and 1 W (0,7 m).
- My Location
- Sweden
Even if values in percentage don't say that much here are the values at my place (1,1 m antenna):
12616 H: 90-92 %
12635 V: 96-98 %
12654 H: 90-92 %
12673 V: 92-94 %
12713 V: 93-95 %
Most other transponders on Hotbird show 99 % (a couple show 95-97 %).
The Vivacom transponders showing so high values in southern parts of Sweden and absolutely nothing i SE Scotland at about the same latitude must be evidence this is not a widebeam.
12616 H: 90-92 %
12635 V: 96-98 %
12654 H: 90-92 %
12673 V: 92-94 %
12713 V: 93-95 %
Most other transponders on Hotbird show 99 % (a couple show 95-97 %).
The Vivacom transponders showing so high values in southern parts of Sweden and absolutely nothing i SE Scotland at about the same latitude must be evidence this is not a widebeam.
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Nalleman
Member
- My Satellite Setup
- 1,8 Channel Master, Black Pro LNB with CM feedhorn for 28 E which is my main interest when watching TV.
Using two VU+ DUO 4K SE, a VU+ DUO 2 and an Octagon SF8000.
Fixed dishes at: 42 E (0,75 m), 28,2/28,5 E (1,8 m), 19,2 E (1,5 m), 13 E (1,1 m), 9 E (0,7 m), 5 E (1,2 m) and 1 W (0,7 m).
- My Location
- Sweden
No signal in SE Scotland, weak signal in Finland and a very good signal in Sweden in between shows a very narrow beam.
Fisty McB
Member
- My Satellite Setup
- See my signature...
- My Location
- County Tyrone, N. Ireland
Just a few pointers...
* The reason some are suggesting that these Vivacom tests at 13E are using a "Superbeam" is that such a beam was in Eutelsat's publicity for both the HB 13F & 13G birds prior to their launch. It was a worry about a year ago for some on this forum that certain broadcasters at 13 East would transfer to a new "Superbeam" beam on the new birds that concentrated predominantly on Europe with little overspill at the expense of the Middle East & Central Asia, but this didn't come to pass with all transferred services remaining on a "Widebeam" on both satellites very similar to the satellites it replaced. The only people whom can confidently say that no such "Superbeam" beam exists is either Eutelsat or Vivacom themselves, but for whatever reason satellite operators have became a bit more reluctant in publishing footprint maps prior to new birds coming into service these days.
* It's also possible that certain birds may have a beam or beams that are otherwise not made public until it is needed - this can't be more obvious than the spot beam on Astra 1N that seemed to magically disappear in all SES publicity once it finished its temporary mission at 28 East and moved to 19 East, claiming it has only one pan-European beam! So it is possible that at least one of the two new Hot Bird satellites have more than just a traditional Widebeam footprint on them. (Incidently that spot beam on Astra 1N looked like it was intended for coverage of the Iberian pennisula as it had a side contour on its south-east to reach down to the Canaries, but it was seemingly never put into full service at 19 East?).
* It's also very possible that they could be doing these tests on the old HB 13E satellite by shifting its Widebeam footprint a bit to the east to centre over South-Eastern Europe, but if this were to be the case we should be having reception reports from the likes of the Middle East & Iran where there should be a corresponding improvement in signal strength for the corresponding transponders compared to what was first reported when reception in the UK was possible - none has been confirmed, at least here on Sats UK. Also, it's a struggle to make sense of using a satellite that's now 18 years old to be brought out of its sleep to launch a DTH service - it can't be too long before it starts to have large enough inclination swings to render it unsuitable for DTH use.
* The transmission configuration of 8PSK modulation with an FEC of 5/6 will hit fringe reception as the minimum C/N ratio for this configuration is 9.4db - probably a good reason why those of us on the western fringes of Europe are (now) getting nothing from these transmissions with modest (<1 metre) sized dishes. C'est la vie. I wonder what size of dishes Vivacom subscribers in Bulgaria are using for the service currently at 45 East?
My €0.02 assumption? These Vivacom tests are using an otherwise currently unpublised beam (possibly the "Superbeam") on Hotbird 13F or 13G, until evidence proves otherwise.
* The reason some are suggesting that these Vivacom tests at 13E are using a "Superbeam" is that such a beam was in Eutelsat's publicity for both the HB 13F & 13G birds prior to their launch. It was a worry about a year ago for some on this forum that certain broadcasters at 13 East would transfer to a new "Superbeam" beam on the new birds that concentrated predominantly on Europe with little overspill at the expense of the Middle East & Central Asia, but this didn't come to pass with all transferred services remaining on a "Widebeam" on both satellites very similar to the satellites it replaced. The only people whom can confidently say that no such "Superbeam" beam exists is either Eutelsat or Vivacom themselves, but for whatever reason satellite operators have became a bit more reluctant in publishing footprint maps prior to new birds coming into service these days.
* It's also possible that certain birds may have a beam or beams that are otherwise not made public until it is needed - this can't be more obvious than the spot beam on Astra 1N that seemed to magically disappear in all SES publicity once it finished its temporary mission at 28 East and moved to 19 East, claiming it has only one pan-European beam! So it is possible that at least one of the two new Hot Bird satellites have more than just a traditional Widebeam footprint on them. (Incidently that spot beam on Astra 1N looked like it was intended for coverage of the Iberian pennisula as it had a side contour on its south-east to reach down to the Canaries, but it was seemingly never put into full service at 19 East?).
* It's also very possible that they could be doing these tests on the old HB 13E satellite by shifting its Widebeam footprint a bit to the east to centre over South-Eastern Europe, but if this were to be the case we should be having reception reports from the likes of the Middle East & Iran where there should be a corresponding improvement in signal strength for the corresponding transponders compared to what was first reported when reception in the UK was possible - none has been confirmed, at least here on Sats UK. Also, it's a struggle to make sense of using a satellite that's now 18 years old to be brought out of its sleep to launch a DTH service - it can't be too long before it starts to have large enough inclination swings to render it unsuitable for DTH use.
* The transmission configuration of 8PSK modulation with an FEC of 5/6 will hit fringe reception as the minimum C/N ratio for this configuration is 9.4db - probably a good reason why those of us on the western fringes of Europe are (now) getting nothing from these transmissions with modest (<1 metre) sized dishes. C'est la vie. I wonder what size of dishes Vivacom subscribers in Bulgaria are using for the service currently at 45 East?
My €0.02 assumption? These Vivacom tests are using an otherwise currently unpublised beam (possibly the "Superbeam") on Hotbird 13F or 13G, until evidence proves otherwise.
Fisty McB
Member
- My Satellite Setup
- See my signature...
- My Location
- County Tyrone, N. Ireland
There's a heck of a western drop-off of the Thor 7 satellite 's CEE beam from Norway to where I'm located - not a sniff of anything from that bird here even on a 1.2 metre dish whereas both beams on Thor 5 as well as the K1 beam on Thor 6 are easily picked up, with K2 being weak but receivable.
Many of the new satellites up there in orbit are able to really tighten their footprints up these days.
- My Satellite Setup
- TM 5402HD
Sky+ UK.
- My Location
- Scottish Borders
Useless to whom? The beam is doing EXACTLY what the broadcaster using it wants it to do - all satellite transmission beams are designed in consultation with the broadcasters. I guarantee that if this restrcted beam hadnt been requested by a broadcaster it wouldnt be on the satellite.
The fact you & me cant receive it is irrelevant - we dont pay Eutelsat millions of Euros per year in transmission fees.
Anyway there is a history of restricted coverage beams at 13E - Hotbirds 2-5 had superbeams on them. See this old post on the forum from 2007
Hotbirds 2 / 3 / 4 / 5 (all renamed and repositioned)
Hotbirds 2 - 5 were identical craft operating at 13E. They had a wide beam and a superbeam which covered western Europe. All four have been withdrawn from 13E, given new missions elsewhere around the arc and renamed: Hotbird 2 is now Eurobird 9 at 9E Hotbird 3 is now Eurobird 4 at 4E Hotbird 4...
www.satellites.co.uk
I agree , but look at that beam it covers at least whole EuropeUseless to whom? The beam is doing EXACTLY what the broadcaster using it wants it to do - all satellite transmission beams are designed in consultation with the broadcasters. I guarantee that if this restrcted beam hadnt been requested by a broadcaster it wouldnt be on the satellite.
The fact you & me cant receive it is irrelevant - we dont pay Eutelsat millions of Euros per year in transmission fees.
Anyway there is a history of restricted coverage beams at 13E - Hotbirds 2-5 had superbeams on them. See this old post on the forum from 2007
Hotbirds 2 / 3 / 4 / 5 (all renamed and repositioned)
Hotbirds 2 - 5 were identical craft operating at 13E. They had a wide beam and a superbeam which covered western Europe. All four have been withdrawn from 13E, given new missions elsewhere around the arc and renamed: Hotbird 2 is now Eurobird 9 at 9E Hotbird 3 is now Eurobird 4 at 4E Hotbird 4...
Attachments
- My Satellite Setup
- TM 5402HD
Sky+ UK.
- My Location
- Scottish Borders
Sharp eastern cutoff - signal strengths decreasing over the Bulgaria / Romania / Turkey area.
