Help Required Looped receivers lost/bad signal

[londonredfox]

Hello.
I have a diseq switch sending in a cable from 2 separate dishes: the Hispasat at position A and Hotbird at position B. This setup's been working perfectly for both satellites feeding into 1 receiver - a Technomate 5302HD.
I've acquired a couple of other receivers which I want to use instead of the old Technomate. The signal worked perfectly in each receiver, separately. However, I need to use both so I have connected the Telesystem receiver Loop Out to the Samsung... then the problems started.
With the master Hotbird looping out to the standby slave, I have managed to get the required channels and receive them without an issue.. until I switched the slave on. Then I lost signal. So I turned the slave back off (standby) and waited for some 30 minutes but the channels did not come back on. Then I turned the slave on and the master off, and the channels on the slave also went off. I keep getting errors like "not enough signal" or "poor quality signal" in each receiver, doesn't matter whether one is off, both on, so on.

Is it possible that my Loop Through has cut the signal strength? Can I, should I, boost it? Or did this loop with turning receivers on and off caused a problem to the actual switch or LNBs?

All the help is very much appreciated... the wife won't forgive me for another day spent on this :/

 

[Terryl]

I would not use the loop output, it's a useless output to run a second receiver on.

A second coax is the best bet.

Try turning the LNB power off on the slave receiver, use the main receiver to run the switch and LNB's.

 

[londonredfox]

I would not use the loop output, it's a useless output to run a second receiver on.

A second coax is the best bet.

Try turning the LNB power off on the slave receiver, use the main receiver to run the switch and LNB's.

Tested it further and what happens is that as soon as I insert the loop out cable into the master the signal is lost, but the slave works fine. I need to take off the cable from loop out, wait and restart the receiver some time to get signal back. Maybe the slave's stand by is not really turning it off.
Unfortunately the slave Samsung box is closed to Hispasat and no further settings like choosing switch and lnb power.

By coaxial do you mean an extra cable directly from the switch, 2 cables from outside to the 2 receivers? If I could avoid new holes, better.

Thanks!!

 

[william-1]

In the menu on some receivers they have an option for Power Saving ect this setting blocks the output of the signal to another receiver so select Standard or Off in this setting.

 

[rolfw]

Install twin or quad LNBs at the dish, add a second DiseqC switch, or if you only need a single satellite for one of the receivers, then no need for the second switch. Use a length of Sky type WF65 shotgun cable to run into house, replacing the single cable, this will fit through a 10mm hole, which is probably what you have for your existing cable.

 

[londonredfox]

In the menu on some receivers they have an option for Power Saving ect this setting blocks the output of the signal to another receiver so select Standard or Off in this setting.

I tried changing power saving settings before but did not do the trick. If I recall well the master only allows 2 settings, eco and something else and no actual savings off. I'll check and try again later.
Thanks!

 

[londonredfox]

Install twin or quad LNBs at the dish, add a second DiseqC switch, or if you only need a single satellite for one of the receivers, then no need for the second switch. Use a length of Sky type WF65 shotgun cable to run into house, replacing the single cable, this will fit through a 10mm hole, which is probably what you have for your existing cable.

Interesting option. I only need 1 sat per receiver, yes. I have 2 dishes though, one for hispasat and another for hotbird. So I guess twin LNBs for each dish but then what? Wouldn't that mean 4 cables instead of 1 or 2? Or does the twin lnb feed into a 4-way diseq switch or something? Thanks!

 

[Terryl]

Depends on the LNB's installed on those dishes.

Some may work with a 4x4 legacy switch, this would be two feeds to it from each LNB, (SAT 1 A-B, SAT 2 A- then it will drive up to 4 receivers.

If the LNB's are of the standard type with a single output (one "F" connector on it) then you may need to switch out the LNB's for a dual output type as most 4x4 switches need two inputs from each LNB to run more then one receiver.

And it is still advisable to run a second coax to the second receiver, this way they are totally independent from each other.

It would look something like this.

 

[londonredfox]

Awesome, thanks @Terryl for the diagram and explanation.
It's more work than I wanted, especially replacing or adding a coaxial cable but will seriously consider it.
Thanks.

 

[a33]

I only need 1 sat per receiver, yes. I have 2 dishes though, one for hispasat and another for hotbird.

So you want to use one receiver for Hotbird, and the other for Hispasat? Do I understand that right?

Then you wouldn't need a switch, just two cables!
If drilling a hole is really a problem, then there are other (expensive) solutions (such as stacker/destacker).

And if you don't want to watch both receivers simultaniously, a one-cable option could still be possible, for instance with a priority switch.

So: What is it exactly that you want?
That way we can best help you with (still more... ?) possible solutions.

Greetz,
A33

 

[Terryl]

Too bad your LNB's and receivers don't use the band-stacking we use over here on the Dish satellites, you could (with the right software in the receiver) run one coax and the use the special DP separator and run two receivers off the one coax.

I have the DN setup at my house, I run 4 dual input/tuner receivers off 4 coaxes, and get all 3 birds, when I'm really board and don't want to watch TV I can record 8 shows at once, and melt my brain later with a "watch TV Marathon".

 

[londonredfox]

Thanks for all the suggestions!!

I've finally managed to get the loop through work! I just tested all 3 receivers, 2 at a time, in different combinations. My old Technomate 5301 seems to like being the master and feed the 'closed' Samsung box.
No luck with the Telesystem in the loops, in either end, so ditched it for now. I get the feeling that it was providing LNB power even on Standby or its loop capacity is rubish. Shame I lose its pretty OSD and Internet/interactivity features though, to the ugly Technomate.

 

[rolfw]

Interesting option. I only need 1 sat per receiver, yes. I have 2 dishes though, one for hispasat and another for hotbird. So I guess twin LNBs for each dish but then what? Wouldn't that mean 4 cables instead of 1 or 2? Or does the twin lnb feed into a 4-way diseq switch or something? Thanks!

No, you simply duplicate what you already have, so twin LNBs, a second two way DiSEqC switch and connect to the twin WF65 shotgun cable which runs into house to serve both receivers.

 

[londonredfox]

Question: could an Ethernet cable be the cause of a receiver powering its lnb in even if on standby? I mean, could a box be searching and downloading data as it detects the Internet connection even on standby? Just a theory...

 

[londonredfox]

So you want to use one receiver for Hotbird, and the other for Hispasat? Do I understand that right?

Then you wouldn't need a switch, just two cables!
If drilling a hole is really a problem, then there are other (expensive) solutions (such as stacker/destacker).

And if you don't want to watch both receivers simultaniously, a one-cable option could still be possible, for instance with a priority switch.

So: What is it exactly that you want?
That way we can best help you with (still more... ?) possible solutions.

Greetz,
A33

I want peace on Earth... And a way to use 2 receivers with 1 lnb cable from the diseqc switch.
I know, I'm such a dreamer.

Anyway, I got the loop going. It'll do for now and until I decide it's enough switching receivers on and off and using 3 remotes, get off the couch and start drilling and cabling.

 

[Huevos]

View attachment 89669

Never seen a DiSEqC switch with 2 receiver ports. No idea how that is supposed to work. Please post a link to one.

 

[4wd]

A second coax is the best bet.

Agree, and when doing the work it's not much hassle to add some more. I started with 1, later 2, now 4.
Many cables = easily cope with any current and future situation.

 

[a33]

Never seen a DiSEqC switch with 2 receiver ports. No idea how that is supposed to work. Please post a link to one.

Well, there is one from SPAUN I believe. It is nothing else than two 2/1 switches in one casing, though.
So advising a 4/2 switch without telling that, is insufficient on this forum I would say.
And as TS already has one 2/1 switch, adding another 2/1 switch would suffice to get 4/2 functionality, by the way.

The 4x4 switch that @Terryl mentions, is as I assume a Diseqc MULTIswitch, not a 'diseqc switch' as we call it.
The 4x4 multiswitch is usefull in America, where they often use LNBs without switching capability between low band and high band. In Europe, with the use of so called 'universal LNBs', a 4x4 switch is usefull only in very very specific set-ups. So not in the case of @londonredfox, I would say.

I tried changing power saving settings before but did not do the trick. If I recall well the master only allows 2 settings, eco and something else and no actual savings off. I'll check and try again later.

Have you tested this again? For it could solve your problem without further investment in hardware ;).

A second coax is the best bet.

Well, I believe it is only the best bet if we know what TS wants, exactly. If he wants to solve his problem AND expand his possibilities, yes it is the best bet. If he just wants to solve his problem, other possibilities come to mind, as I wrote earlier.

So: What is it exactly that you want?
That way we can best help you with (still more... ?) possible solutions.

@londonredfox: I can't say we know exactly what you want.
Do you want to use one or more televisions? Do you indeed want to use one receiver for Hotbird, and the other for Hispasat? Do you want to watch simultaniously to different programs, from different satellite positions? Or watch and record at the same time? Do you want to expand your possibilities in the (near) future, or rather not expand?
Have you thought about buying ONE receiver as replacement for your Technomate, fullfilling all your needs; instead of two different receivers?
Really more information is needed, I would say, to give the best advice out of all possibilities.

Anyway, I got the loop going. It'll do for now and until I decide it's enough switching receivers on and off and using 3 remotes, .......

So why not investigate further what possibilities might be suitable for your situation?

Greetz,
A33

 

[londonredfox]

I've managed to get the loop working, so I'm good for now. I believe the other receiver was powering the lnb and stopping the loop working properly, and no settings available to change it.
Yes, my objective was to use the existing cable from the diseqc switch and its 2 satellites feeding into the 2 recovers, one for hispasat and one for hotbird.
I heard all bad things about loops so I did consider the multi switch and multi cable options mentioned here, but all seems working fine in the loop funny enough.
One day I might change my mind and go for a 1 receiver solution, but I'm fine for now, will see.
Thanks for everyone's help and suggestions. I hope this thread becomes useful to others like me too! 8)