HEVC will it be important enough to buy a new receiver?

[rodscha]

I noticed Canal plus has recently adopted HEVC & this means some of their FTA transmissions are not received (i get sound & no pic) with my (non-hevc) receiver
My question is,will HEVC become common enough,or will it be only some marginally interesting TPs (like Bosnia..and FTA Canal+) that will use HEVC?
Example Europe 1 tv on 12402V 29700

 

[rodscha]

I get confused because ,on French DTT,"la TNT"(terrestrial,with Yagi antennas) the HEVC applies only to 4K transmissions,which only tech geeks & buyers of new TV sets will watch.Just the new tech fad...like "3D" 12 years ago...
HEVC also happens on sat tv.. how big/unsignificant will it be in the upcoming years?

 

[Channel Hopper]

HEVC has been around for quite a few years in other devices - notably CCTV systems, allowing (I think) up to four times the information within an image of the earlier format, H264.

It is a natural progression of coding moving pictures, even thouugh the ones you have currently found on satellite are carried FTA over the links. These may remain in the clear for a while, (or forever), owing to the cost of upgrading the commercial equipment at the receive end.

What is going to change will be the method of subscriptions in each country as infrastructure is replaced along with the current carrier from satellite to cable and or terrestrial.

 

[Adam792]

The strange thing with these new HEVC transmissions by Canal on 19.2°E is that they're using interlacing (as MPEG2 and H264 did), so some decoders (and presumably receivers), display the image at half height - HEVC doesn't technically support interlacing, so you can't blame them too much.

The same thing happens with CT24 on 16°E which is also interlaced HEVC, and some of the feed versions of TVE La 1 via the encapsulated "Abertis" transmissions on 30°W.


Screen capture from VLC. My Octagon SF8008 mini does seem to show the image correctly on the other hand.

 

[mapperuo]

The strange thing with these new HEVC transmissions by Canal on 19.2°E is that they're using interlacing (as MPEG2 and H264 did), so some decoders (and presumably receivers), display the image at half height - HEVC doesn't technically support interlacing, so you can't blame them too much.

The same thing happens with CT24 on 16°E which is also interlaced HEVC, and some of the feed versions of TVE La 1 via the encapsulated "Abertis" transmissions on 30°W.

View attachment 166990
Screen capture from VLC. My Octagon SF8008 mini does seem to show the image correctly on the other hand.

They look like they are only half height, but they are at 50fps so decode to full frame 25fps. Atleast thats my understanding.

 

[hexah]

Many if not all TVs sold in the last 3 or 4 years support HEVC h.265 because it is used terrestrially in Germany, and the makers will assume other countries might follow.

h.266 might make an appearance soon on a feed. It is hard to say when h.266 will be used in broadcast and be included in receivers.

PC cards pass everything, so you only need the right codecs.

 

[Channel Hopper]

Many if not all TVs sold in the last 3 or 4 years support HEVC h.265 because it is used terrestrially in Germany, and the makers will assume other countries might follow.

h.266 might make an appearance soon on a feed. It is hard to say when h.266 will be used in broadcast and be included in receivers.

PC cards pass everything, so you only need the right codecs.

4k/UHD is te designated standard for home deployment for at least five years, the O/P is safe for the time being. 8k is of course next though H266 has no advantage on TVs (outside Japan from memory) for at least two or three years.

 

[rodscha]

Thank you CH for your clear and accurate answers!
is HEVC going to be common on satellite,or is it more adapted to terrestrial and internet transmissions?

 

[Old Satterhand]

The problem with interlaced over H265 is, that there is no way to know the order of the fields in order to display the original interlaced frame.
A way to overcome this problem is by analysing the movement in the picture. That takes some time, usually about 5-10 seconds.
During that time the picture is shown with repeated 1ste (or second) field. Only a trained eye (like mine) will notice that.

 

[Channel Hopper]

Thank you CH for your clear and accurate answers!
is HEVC going to be common on satellite,or is it more adapted to terrestrial and internet transmissions?

Satellite forms the backbone for a number of terrestrial systems where the region has a cable distribution, or the land does not lend itself to the installation of towers, so yes, it will appear more often as time goes on.

 

[Miika]

Always, if you have to choose between two similar receivers, one without and one with HEVC, take the HEVC option.

Significant reason, why there are so few HEVC channels, is the licence fees. HEVC is quite new codec, so users has to pay for licence to licence pool. H264 is older, many (sub)licences are expired, thus partly free, as like 'very' old MPEG2, which is now completely free to use.

The strange thing with these new HEVC transmissions by Canal on 19.2°E is that they're using interlacing (as MPEG2 and H264 did), so some decoders (and presumably receivers), display the image at half height - HEVC doesn't technically support interlacing, so you can't blame them too much.

HEVC encoders support interlace fully, as old input material is often interlaced. All TV-sets and SetTopBoxes support also interlaced HEVC and displays it correctly at full height. Only exception is FFmpeg-based players (VLC etc. software decoders), because FFmpeg have not implemented how to handle the SEI messages of interlace streams, so these are showed with half height.

The problem with interlaced over H265 is, that there is no way to know the order of the fields in order to display the original interlaced frame.

There is one and only way to know the order and it is in HEVC standard - SEI messages, which shall be present for each picture. Interlaced content can be managed by coding individual fields as separate images and passing SEI messages to the player.

SEI - Supplemental Enhancement Information. It supports the delivery of additional metadata signals.

 

[Nalleman]

I noticed Canal plus has recently adopted HEVC & this means some of their FTA transmissions are not received (i get sound & no pic) with my (non-hevc) receiver
My question is,will HEVC become common enough,or will it be only some marginally interesting TPs (like Bosnia..and FTA Canal+) that will use HEVC?
Example Europe 1 tv on 12402V 29700

Do you know if Europe 1 TV intends to start regular TV-transmissions? Right now it's just showing a logo of Europe 1 and the sound from the radio station with the same name.

As for HEVC there is almost nothing to be found for free.
I watch RAI 4K and the package at 10 727 H on Hotbird 13F sometimes but otherwise I think HEVC is pretty uninteresting so far.

Transmissions using satellite seems to slowly be reduced so the question is if HEVC ever will be "the thing" via satellite. Nobody knows...

 

[rodscha]

Do you know if Europe 1 TV intends to start regular TV-transmissions? Right now it's just showing a logo of Europe 1 and the sound from the radio station with the same name.

As for HEVC there is almost nothing to be found for free.
I watch RAI 4K and the package at 10 727 H on Hotbird 13F sometimes but otherwise I think HEVC is pretty uninteresting so far.

Transmissions using satellite seems to slowly be reduced so the question is if HEVC ever will be "the thing" via satellite. Nobody knows...

Thank you! that s what i was looking for.
I ve been through the 3D craze (bought my TV then) and it 's virtually dead by now.Hence my view that out of many new standards,only a few survive /become important.
We keep hearing that French DTT will be HEVC some time... like DAB radio,much ado about (almost) nothing.
Seems the only real goal is,sell new TV and radio sets.
Next one is 4k...

 

[rodscha]

BTW Europe 1 is an old French commercial radio station. Was great in the 50,60,70's very student & youth oriented.
Then it became bland,talkative full of ads,just boring. So,they converted into extreme right wing support,bought by a right wing billionnaire ,Mr Bolloré. So,now ,pure s... not even music. Kind of like Fox News on radio.

 

[timo_w2s]

I'm pretty sure Estonia's DVB-T/T2 is all HEVC so I make use of it on my Linux box with sat and terrestrial tuners.

 

[Channel Hopper]

Thank you! that s what i was looking for.
I ve been through the 3D craze (bought my TV then) and it 's virtually dead by now.Hence my view that out of many new standards,only a few survive /become important.
We keep hearing that French DTT will be HEVC some time... like DAB radio,much ado about (almost) nothing.
Seems the only real goal is,sell new TV and radio sets.
Next one is 4k...

The French terrestrial broadcasts are already duplicated in 4K.
The planned switch-off is a couple of years away (end 2028 ?).

 

[Nalleman]

The French terrestrial broadcasts are already duplicated in 4K.
The planned switch-off is a couple of years away (end 2028 ?).

In Sweden the only service left in the terrestial net now is the public service broadcaster SVT (they are obliged to remain by the government). The last remaining commercial broadcaster (TV4) in the terrestial net left a couple of weeks ago. Before that a lot of other channels left about a year ago.

I would say DTT in Sweden will be pretty much dead after 2033 when SVT:s current license expires.

 

[Channel Hopper]

In Sweden the only service left in the terrestial net now is the public service broadcaster SVT (they are obliged to remain by the government). The last remaining commercial broadcaster (TV4) in the terrestial net left a couple of weeks ago. Before that a lot of other channels left about a year ago.

I would say DTT in Sweden will be pretty much dead after 2033 when SVT:s current license expires.

Sweden is a very large country with a small population (11million ?).
The cities and larger towns are very well connected by cable and broadband and so it is not surprising DTT is going to be pulled.

 

[rodscha]

The French terrestrial broadcasts are already duplicated in 4K.
The planned switch-off is a couple of years away (end 2028 ?).

only 2 channels,Fr2 and fr3 are available in 4k. We have 25 channels on DTT
and more online (the "boxes" from Orange,Bouygues,Free....) and satellite.
This comes from a French website:

What programs are offered in UHD 4K on digital terrestrial television (TNT)?​

France 2 UHD broadcasts its entire channel lineup in Ultra High Definition: news programs, dramas, documentaries, entertainment, and sporting events. Programs are systematically upscaled to 4K with advanced HDR management to deliver more dynamic and contrasted images.

France 3 UHD adopts a more ad hoc approach: the channel is activated during events with high audience or high visual stakes, such as the Tour de France, the Fête de la Musique or the Olympic Games.

More from me:
Of course when you buy a new TV you get a "4k" one...
like 12 years ago you'd get a "3D" one...
When watching ,usually old, films ,Monument Valley-type of westerns,
the "3D" icon comes up ,needs 5 presses on the exit button to go away. No 3D in sight!
Funny isn't it!

 

[dmaavrigdo]

Sweden is a very large country with a small population (11million ?).
The cities and larger towns are very well connected by cable and broadband and so it is not surprising DTT is going to be pulled.

88.5% of homes in Sweden were passed by gigabit-capable networks (mainly FTTP) by mid-2023.
Here I have a fiber cabinet in my garden but as it costs £2500 to be connected, plus paying for the data, I'm not bothering. I have a 5g modem with unlimited data for £25 a month.