Advice Needed How to improve signal strength

[Robinson74]

Hi,
I have a quad Inverto LNB. The 4 external cables are about 30-40 metres long each. Then they are connected to internal cables, 10-20 metres long each.
So in total, they are may be up to about 60 metres long.
m
My signal strength is probably not perfect.
How can I increase it after those 30-40 metres before the signal enters the internal cables?

 

[Analoguesat]

I once tested an entire 100m roll of satellite coax and couldnt see any difference in signal strength on 28E with the normal 15m cable run.

The easiest way to get a better signal is simply to put a bigger dish up.

However other factors could be a poor or failing lnb, water in the cables, corroded or looses connections, foliage in the line of sight in front of the dish. etc etc

 

[deeptho]

Hi,
I have a quad Inverto LNB. The 4 external cables are about 30-40 metres long each. Then they are connected to internal cables, 10-20 metres long each.
So in total, they are may be up to about 60 metres long.
m
My signal strength is probably not perfect.
How can I increase it after those 30-40 metres before the signal enters the internal cables?

Signal strength is overrated. What matters is signal to noise ratio. Up to a point that will
remain constant with increasing cable length.

Do you have any problems? If it aint' broken, then don't fix it!

Problems means:: signals you can receive when attaching the receiver directly
to the lnb (ar after the first 40m) and cannot be received with the long cables.
Such problems would be worse just below 11700Mhz and just below 12750MHz and
more apparant with weaker signals

They would also be worse if you use cheaper cable and if you have diseqc switches in between.

 

[satelliteman]

A 60mtr run of decent copper/copper WF100 coaxial, signal losses would be around 18dB. Minimum required or the fail point is 52dBuV. CNR is another factor to consider as mentioned, either way these measurements can only be read from using professional metering equipment, so I would look at the cable, it's connectors and/or look at a larger dish to increase signal.
Cheaper cables like RG6 CCS will most certainly have much more of a loss over that given length.

 

[satesco]

The RG 11 coaxial cable length from my antenna to the tuner is 85m. Because of this, the signal attenuation reaches 3dB on some frequencies, but I use a satellite amplifier to improve it.
Here is what I receive and get with an amplifier and without on a satellite with unequal signal from Russia beam.

 

[gdf68]

You haven't stated what cable you are using
or your actual signals, is it the same on all satellites
, dish size
Does it break up in bad weather etc ,

 

[Robinson74]

Thank you all.

I have just bought a Satlink ST-5150 meter to help me motorize my setup using Moteck SG2100. So I will soon be able to measure the signals.
Cables are good and so are connectors but perhaps it is a question of connector assembly.
I will compare my signals with my friend's to see if there is room for improvement.

satesco, what satellite amplifier are you using? Can you post a link to the particular model?

 

[gdf68]

Don't forget Signals can vary between different types of Lnb, receiver and dish combinations.

 

[satesco]

-RG 11 cable is recommended from all points of view over long distances. It is especially used by cable companies that cover a large area, plus it is weatherproof and resistant to pressure of all kinds.
-I wrote about satellite amplifiers and my experience with them here.
I have several amplifiers, but my favorites are Axing and In-line amp NIA8902.

 

[a33]

Signal strength is overrated. What matters is signal to noise ratio. Up to a point that will
remain constant with increasing cable length.

Do you have any problems?

@Robinson74 :
I support this quoted text.
Signal strength should be within certain boundaries, to be able to be processed by your receiver.
The range between those boundaries is rather wide.
When the signal strength is already within these boundaries, there is NO WAY to improve it.
In fact, it does happen that signal can be too strong. I've seen that reported sometimes for Inverto Black Ultra LNBs, which have a rather high amplification.

Best way to have (keep) a good signal strength, is using a good (copper!) cable.

What really matters is "signal quality", or S/N ratio, as @deeptho wrote. That is what will give you 'rain reserve'. You get that mainly with bigger dish, or more precise alignment.

Greetz,
A33

 

[deeptho]

The RG 11 coaxial cable length from my antenna to the tuner is 85m. Because of this, the signal attenuation reaches 3dB on some frequencies, but I use a satellite amplifier to improve it.
Here is what I receive and get with an amplifier and without on a satellite with unequal signal from Russia beam.

So you get an improvement of 0.5-1 dB in SNR. This could make the difference on marginal signals, but for most signals it would not matter. And one has to be careful as SNRs readings were taken 20 minutes apart.

 

[satesco]

So you get an improvement of 0.5-1 dB in SNR. This could make the difference on marginal signals, but for most signals it would not matter. And one has to be careful as SNRs readings were taken 20 minutes apart.

Of course, there are differences in time between the two scans, even by a few minutes, but that doesn't mean that the amplifier doesn't help me in many positions. On the contrary, this is the safe solution, with the antenna at such a distance from the tuner, especially as the area is affected by massive interference from mobile and terrestrial antennas. Of course, a larger antenna would help.
The decibel gain you mention is small on some frequencies, but in other cases, it is big. Those few hundredths or tenths at SNR also make a difference to the demodulation threshold.
Maybe I'll do more tests with the dB differences with and without the amplifier.
Those with reception problems at a distance from the antenna wonder, of course, rhetorically, what these satellite boosters are for. In my case or for others, it is self-evident.
Here is an example of what it means to use amplifiers in the toxic environment in which the antenna works.
If you want, I can provide other examples.

 

[Manikm909]

Hi,
I have a quad Inverto LNB. The 4 external cables are about 30-40 metres long each. Then they are connected to internal cables, 10-20 metres long each.
So in total, they are may be up to about 60 metres long.
m
My signal strength is probably not perfect.
How can I increase it after those 30-40 metres before the signal enters the internal cables?

funny you mention that, i have always been of the opinion never just cut and re-join coax due to signal loss.
recently i had to do it, to save my a lot of hassle, and was expecting loss.
so two lengths of co-ax were straight runs from LNB to Rx, the other two were cut midway.
on my signal meter, both reported the same DB level - was happy with that.

 

[Channel Hopper]

funny you mention that, i have always been of the opinion never just cut and re-join coax due to signal loss.
recently i had to do it, to save my a lot of hassle, and was expecting loss.
so two lengths of co-ax were straight runs from LNB to Rx, the other two were cut midway.
on my signal meter, both reported the same DB level - was happy with that.

The two plugs and barrel connector should not impact on the overall throughput, though by virtue of the different diameters, dielctric and metal content, they can introduce a notch at a specific but random frequency, not disimilar to putting a bend in the cable, or squashing a section through a doorway.

 

[Robinson74]

My Satlink ST-5150 shows C/N. Is it the same as SNR?
By the way, does anyone know how to edit/upload satellites and transponder lists?

 

[deeptho]

Of course, there are differences in time between the two scans, even by a few minutes, but that doesn't mean that the amplifier doesn't help me in many positions. On the contrary, this is the safe solution, with the antenna at such a distance from the tuner, especially as the area is affected by massive interference from mobile and terrestrial antennas. Of course, a larger antenna would help.
The decibel gain you mention is small on some frequencies, but in other cases, it is big. Those few hundredths or tenths at SNR also make a difference to the demodulation threshold.
Maybe I'll do more tests with the dB differences with and without the amplifier.
Those with reception problems at a distance from the antenna wonder, of course, rhetorically, what these satellite boosters are for. In my case or for others, it is self-evident.
Here is an example of what it means to use amplifiers in the toxic environment in which the antenna works.
If you want, I can provide other examples.

You are right that for interference that is picked up by the cable, signal strength does matter. Fortunately I have not 4/5G problem here yet....

 

[Channel Hopper]

My Satlink ST-5150 shows C/N. Is it the same as SNR?
By the way, does anyone know how to edit/upload satellites and transponder lists?

There is an indirect conversion, you will need to input some personal parameters for an accurate link budget.

 

[Robinson74]

What personal parameters do you mean, Channel Hopper?

 

[Channel Hopper]

What personal parameters do you mean, Channel Hopper?

The individual parts that make up your system, if professional all items come with the manufacturer's specification (noise figures and gain at specific frequencies). That also includes the length of the cable run, all connectors and joins.

Your exact location and access to specific satellite positions provides the downlink power, slant angle and atmospheric losses.