Listen Up MIS Multistream Channels: Easy Reference

thanks we didnt have a bad run!
 
Thought this would be the best place to share, I think I've got to the bottom of what's most likely happening with the Italian Rai services on the 5°W multistreams, what with the recent Symbol rate and stream changes.

As part of the Italian move to MPEG4 away from MPEG2 SD (as has also been happening with Tivùsat on 13°E), the Rai are reorganising their DVB-T multiplexes, which are largely delivered to the transmitter sites in Italy via the multistreams on 5°W. DVB-T2 is supposedly being brought in on a non-mandatory basis from 2023, but for now it's just a case of sticking with DVB-T but clearing 700MHz which means Italian DTT condensing its many multiplexes down into a smaller space.

For Rai, their plan seems to be replacing the many individual "Rai Mux 1" multiplexes in each region, with 11 multi-region "Rai Mux R" multiplexes, each containing three versions of Rai 3 - RAI Mux R - Wikipedia

Until now, the method of transport for Rai Mux 1 via the multistreams has been to have a single stream carrying the national Rai 1, Rai 2 and Rai News 24 services, and multiple individual streams carrying each of most of the Rai 3 TGR regions.

The DTT multiplex switchover has started in the Valle d'Aosta and Sardinia, and sure enough -

11013V Stream 3 - is now carrying the Liguria - Sardegna - Toscana version of Rai Mux R (labelled R8 on that Wikipedia page).
11179V Stream 6 - is now carrying the geographically slightly bizarre FVG - Bis (Slovenian language opt-out version for FVG) - Valle d'Aosta version of Rai Mux R (labelled R7 on that Wikipedia page).

Both of these transponders have changed symbol rate in the last few months to 35300, which gives space for three of these new 20Mbps streams, plus extra wiggle room for moving stuff about. If this change eventually happens across all four of Rai's multistream transponders, there's room for 10 of the 11 new "R" multiplexes plus the two national multiplexes (currently on 11179V).

The two new R multiplexes are currently MPEG2 SD, but as far as I can see from a bit of reading, the plan is that these eventually change to MPEG4 HD to replace the existing Rai 1, 2 and 3 HD, with Rai 3 HD becoming regionalised.

My guess at the missing one of the 11 that won't make it to sat is R2 with the German language Rai Südtirol, Trento and Bolzano, which has never been on the multistreams before. However, that's also been the case with the Aosta/FVG ones which we have now gained! The alternative would be that they split them like the legacy versions, with just one Rai 1/2/24 stream to share, which would mean they can fit all of them.
 
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You need to add to this equation that since these muxes rearrangements are meant to be DVB-T2 ready as well (it's not even practical to go through all these changes for them to make new arrangements for DVB-T2 only), the terrestrial network will also adjust. And if DVB-T2 uses huge muxes, concurring with the switch to HD and 256-QAM, that means the current SFN network will be insufficient, so more transmitters should operate, especially in mountain regions. This might explain why the local muxes for these areas that were previously fed via optical should now use satellite.
 
MCelliotG said:
You need to add to this equation that since these muxes rearrangements are meant to be DVB-T2 ready as well (it's not even practical to go through all these changes for them to make new arrangements for DVB-T2 only), the terrestrial network will also adjust. And if DVB-T2 uses huge muxes, concurring with the switch to HD and 256-QAM, that means the current SFN network will be insufficient, so more transmitters should operate, especially in mountain regions. This might explain why the local muxes for these areas that were previously fed via optical should now use satellite.
Click to expand...

I'd also forgotten about the fifth Rai multistream transponder (11016H) that came online last year - so they have plenty of space for everything to fit once they’ve changed it over.
 
Adam792 said:
Thought this would be the best place to share, I think I've got to the bottom of what's most likely happening with the Italian Rai services on the 5°W multistreams, what with the recent Symbol rate and stream changes.

As part of the Italian move to MPEG4 away from MPEG2 SD (as has also been happening with Tivùsat on 13°E), the Rai are reorganising their DVB-T multiplexes, which are largely delivered to the transmitter sites in Italy via the multistreams on 5°W. DVB-T2 is supposedly being brought in on a non-mandatory basis from 2023, but for now it's just a case of sticking with DVB-T but clearing 700MHz which means Italian DTT condensing its many multiplexes down into a smaller space.

For Rai, their plan seems to be replacing the many individual "Rai Mux 1" multiplexes in each region, with 11 multi-region "Rai Mux R" multiplexes, each containing three versions of Rai 3 - RAI Mux R - Wikipedia

Until now, the method of transport for Rai Mux 1 via the multistreams has been to have a single stream carrying the national Rai 1, Rai 2 and Rai News 24 services, and multiple individual streams carrying each of most of the Rai 3 TGR regions.

The DTT multiplex switchover has started in the Valle d'Aosta and Sardinia, and sure enough -

11013V Stream 3 - is now carrying the Liguria - Sardegna - Toscana version of Rai Mux R (labelled R8 on that Wikipedia page).
11179V Stream 6 - is now carrying the geographically slightly bizarre FVG - Bis (Slovenian language opt-out version for FVG) - Valle d'Aosta version of Rai Mux R (labelled R7 on that Wikipedia page).

Both of these transponders have changed symbol rate in the last few months to 35300, which gives space for three of these new 20Mbps streams, plus extra wiggle room for moving stuff about. If this change eventually happens across all four of Rai's multistream transponders, there's room for 10 of the 11 new "R" multiplexes plus the two national multiplexes (currently on 11179V).

The two new R multiplexes are currently MPEG2 SD, but as far as I can see from a bit of reading, the plan is that these eventually change to MPEG4 HD to replace the existing Rai 1, 2 and 3 HD, with Rai 3 HD becoming regionalised.

My guess at the missing one of the 11 that won't make it to sat is R2 with the German language Rai Südtirol, Trento and Bolzano, which has never been on the multistreams before. However, that's also been the case with the Aosta/FVG ones which we have now gained! The alternative would be that they split them like the legacy versions, with just one Rai 1/2/24 stream to share, which would mean they can fit all of them.
Click to expand...

11013V Stream 1 now carrying version R01 of Rai Mux R (Rai 3 TGR Lombardia - Piemonte - Emilia-Romagna) since this morning, which matches the January 10th launch date in Lombardy as mentioned on that Wikipedia page.

I think some of what seems like musical chairs/chaos on these Italian multistreams is presumably them firing them up with something at random to test them before that eventually gets swapped with the intended content later on!
 
11013V Stream 5 - Now carrying version MR2 (R02) of Rai Mux MR with the channels for Trento/Bolzano, including the German-language opt-out Rai 3 TGR Südtirol.

Again, this is the next region in the DTT switchover plan, due to take place on the 10th February. This is one of the ones that wasn't available in multistream at all before, so maybe we are getting all of them after all!

I imagine the next we'll see will be MR6 (R06) as Veneto is apparently the next region to switch, in late February. We'll have to wait and see what musical chairs Rai Way will play to fit this in on the 5°W multistreams...
 
11676H Stream 1 - now carrying version MR6 with the Rai 3 TGR opt-outs for Veneto, Emilia-Romagna and Lombardia.

11676H Stream 2 also seems to be carrying a regional multiplex for the Veneto region with private channels.

In summary of the Rai multistream changes so far, we now have -

11013V Stream 1 - Rai Mux MR 1 (Lombardia - Piemonte - Emilia-Romagna)
11013V Stream 5 - Rai Mux MR 2 (Trento - Alto Adige/Südtirol)
11676H Stream 1 - Rai Mux MR 6 (Veneto - Emilia-Romagna - Lombardia)
11179V Stream 6 - Rai Mux MR 7 (FVG - FVG Bis - Valle d'Aosta)
11013V Stream 3 - Rai Mux MR 8 (Liguria - Sardegna - Toscana)
 
More changes yesterday, a big swap of Rai channels to HD. To continue to watch Rai 1 HD and Rai 2 HD you will need to scan in one of the regional multistream feeds as above! The old versions on 11179V Stream 4 and Stream 5 have been replaced with a legacy Rai 3 SD and Rai 2 SD respectively (with a new Rai 1 SD also appearing on Stream 5).

A couple more of the new regional multiplexes have also appeared (with Rai 1 HD and Rai 2 HD as the others) -

11017H Stream 1 - Rai Mux MR 5 (Puglia - Basilicata - Molise)
11017H Stream 4 and Stream 5 - Rai Mux MR 10 (Sicilia - Basilicata - Calabria)
11676H Stream 3 - Rai Mux MR 4 (Lazio - Toscana - Umbria)

Rai 3 HD continues as before for now, because the regional versions are all still SD on the new streams (although now in MPEG4 rather than MPEG2). The final plan is apparently for each regional multiplex to also have Rai 3 HD, which then splits dynamically into three SD streams just for the regional news, but the technical work needed for that has not yet been done, so the three SD streams are there permanently for now.

Slightly oddly, they all are carrying this Rai 3 HD stream already in the tiny amount of space not being used by the 3 SD streams, and that looks like this :D -
 

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Sorry, took me ages to get back to you. Needed permission to get on the roof.
It's the one on the right, so probably 90cm.

I tightened up all the connections on the LNB and on the switch. Also we have a sea gull problem...

IMG_20230912_131037 (1).jpg
 
If birds are sitting on the dish arms just get some zip ties & put them round the arms with the pointy bit upwards :)
 
PegMan said:
Sorry, took me ages to get back to you. Needed permission to get on the roof.
It's the one on the right, so probably 90cm.

I tightened up all the connections on the LNB and on the switch. Also we have a sea gull problem...

View attachment 151976
Click to expand...
Nice setup - Do you have multiple feeds and sats ? Or is this a shared system?
 
mike1 said:
Nice setup - Do you have multiple feeds and sats ? Or is this a shared system?
Click to expand...
Just for our company, part of what we needed at the time. We swapped to 5.0 free France, had been paying for years!
 
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